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Javier Cruz

Does selling a stock at a loss in my trust then having my kids buy it count as a wash sale?

I've got some investments in my Revocable Trust that aren't doing so hot right now. I'm thinking about selling some stock that's down about $8,400 to harvest the tax loss. After selling, I was planning to gift the cash (about $22,000) to my three adult children. Here's my question - if I sell the stock for a loss and take the tax deduction, are there any issues if my kids turn around and buy the same stock with the cash I give them? Does the IRS consider this some kind of wash sale violation since the money and stock would essentially stay "in the family"? The last thing I want is to have the IRS come back and disallow my loss deduction because of some technical rule I didn't know about. I understand the basic wash sale rule that I can't rebuy the same stock within 30 days, but I'm not clear if there are family attribution rules that would apply here. Anyone have experience with this situation? Thanks for any help!

Emma Wilson

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The wash sale rule generally applies when you (or your spouse) repurchase the same or substantially identical securities within 30 days before or after selling at a loss. The key factor here is who's considered "you" under the IRS rules. For a revocable trust, since you maintain control over the assets, the trust is generally treated as you for tax purposes. The trickier question is about your children. Currently, the IRS wash sale rules don't explicitly extend to purchases made by your children with gifted money. Unlike some other tax provisions, there's no specific "related party" extension for wash sales that automatically includes family members outside your spouse. However, this is an area where intent and substance-over-form can come into play. If the IRS determines this was done primarily to circumvent the wash sale rules while effectively maintaining economic interest in the same securities, they could potentially challenge it.

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Malik Thomas

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So does this mean I could technically do this with my mom's investments? She wants to take some losses but still likes the stocks long term. If she gives me cash after selling could I just buy them without triggering the wash sale rule for her?

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Emma Wilson

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The rules don't explicitly prohibit what you're describing, but there's some risk involved. The IRS could potentially look at the entire transaction and argue it was orchestrated to avoid the wash sale rule while effectively maintaining the same economic position. This falls into a gray area where the "step transaction" doctrine might apply - where the IRS looks at the substance of a series of related transactions rather than just their form. Your relative risk depends on factors like how coordinated the selling and buying activities are, documentation of intent, and whether there's a pattern of this behavior.

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NeonNebula

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After dealing with almost this exact situation last year, I found https://taxr.ai super helpful. My financial advisor gave me conflicting info about wash sales with family members, so I uploaded our trust docs and previous tax returns to taxr.ai and got a clear analysis. The platform showed me that while the direct wash sale rules might not explicitly apply to family members beyond spouses, the IRS has used other doctrines like "step transaction" to challenge arrangements where the purpose appears to be circumventing tax rules. Taxr.ai analyzed previous cases and gave me specific guidelines on how to document our transactions to reduce audit risk.

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How exactly does this work? Do real tax professionals review your documents or is it just some AI giving generic advice? I'm skeptical about uploading financial docs to random websites.

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Ravi Malhotra

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Does it actually give you specific advice for your situation or just general information you could find anywhere? I'm dealing with a similar issue but with S-Corp shares rather than a trust.

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NeonNebula

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They use a combination of AI and tax professionals. The initial analysis is automated, which is how they can process everything so quickly, but they have tax pros who review complex situations. The system flagged my trust scenario for human review, and I got personalized recommendations. For S-Corp shares, the platform would definitely be helpful. It handles business entities too, not just personal situations. What's useful is how it connects the dots between different tax rules that might interact in unexpected ways, especially with business structures.

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Ravi Malhotra

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Just wanted to follow up about taxr.ai - I gave it a try after seeing it mentioned here. Uploaded my S-Corp docs and previous returns, and wow, it actually provided really specific guidance about my situation. It highlighted a "related party transaction" provision I hadn't considered that affects S-Corp shareholders differently than trust beneficiaries. The analysis showed exactly where the IRS has historically drawn the line between legitimate tax planning and transactions they've challenged. Saved me from making what could have been a costly mistake with my stock sales. Definitely worth checking out if you're dealing with anything slightly complicated tax-wise.

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Omar Farouk

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Does this actually work? The last time I tried calling the IRS directly they just gave me a generic answer and told me to consult a tax professional. Seems like a waste of time even if I don't have to wait on hold.

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Chloe Davis

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This sounds like BS. Nobody gets through to the IRS these days, especially for complex questions like wash sales and trust distributions. They're not going to give you a binding opinion over the phone that protects you in case of an audit.

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It absolutely works. The key is getting through to the right department. When you connect, immediately ask for someone who specializes in investment transactions or trust taxation. The frontline reps will often transfer you to a more knowledgeable agent. You're right that phone advice isn't legally binding like a private letter ruling, but it can still be valuable. I always take detailed notes including the agent's ID number and date/time of call. In case of an audit, documenting that you sought guidance from the IRS shows good faith compliance efforts, which can help avoid penalties even if the interpretation was incorrect.

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Chloe Davis

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AstroAlpha

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There's another angle to consider here - the "step transaction doctrine" that the IRS sometimes uses. If they can prove that the entire sequence (you selling, gifting cash, kids buying same stock) was pre-arranged as a single plan to circumvent the wash sale rules, they might challenge it. The biggest risk factor would be timing and documentation. If you explicitly instruct your kids to buy the stock, especially in writing, or if the transactions happen very close together, that's riskier. If you truly gift the money with no strings attached and they independently decide to purchase the stock some time later, you'd have a much stronger position.

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Diego Chavez

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Would it make a difference if the kids bought a similar but not identical stock? Like selling Vanguard S&P 500 but having them buy Fidelity's S&P 500 fund instead? Would that avoid the "substantially identical" problem?

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AstroAlpha

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That's actually a really good question. The IRS defines "substantially identical" securities somewhat loosely. Different S&P 500 index funds from different companies would likely be considered substantially identical since they track the same index and have nearly identical performance. However, if there were more significant differences - like selling an S&P 500 fund but purchasing a total market fund or a different sector fund - you'd have a much stronger case that they're not substantially identical. The more differentiation in the investment characteristics and performance patterns, the better position you'd be in to argue they aren't substantially identical securities.

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Has anyone actually been audited for something like this? I feel like the IRS has bigger fish to fry than tracking what your adult kids buy with gift money. Not that I'm advocating for breaking rules, but realistically, how would they even connect these dots unless the amounts were huge?

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Sean O'Brien

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While audit rates are generally low, investment transactions get reported on 1099s, and the IRS's computer systems are getting better at flagging patterns. I know someone who got questions about wash sales across different accounts at different brokerages - they can definitely connect the dots better than before.

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Yara Nassar

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I think you're underestimating the IRS's ability to track related transactions, especially with larger amounts like $22,000. The IRS has sophisticated data matching systems that can connect 1099-B forms (showing your stock sale) with gift tax returns (if you file Form 709) and your children's brokerage accounts. Even if you stay under the annual gift tax exclusion and don't file Form 709, brokerage firms report all transactions. If your kids buy the same stock shortly after you sell it, especially if they're using accounts at the same brokerage, that creates a clear paper trail. The audit risk might be low, but the consequences of having your loss deduction disallowed plus potential penalties make it worth being careful. A safer approach might be to wait the full 30 days before gifting the money, or have your kids invest in genuinely different securities that aren't substantially identical to what you sold.

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This is really eye-opening about the IRS's tracking capabilities. I had no idea they could match up transactions across different accounts like that. The 30-day waiting period before gifting sounds like a smart safeguard - it would help establish that the gift and any subsequent purchases by the kids were separate decisions rather than part of a coordinated plan. Do you know if there's any official guidance on what constitutes a "safe" time gap between the sale and gift to avoid step transaction issues?

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Sofia Price

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There isn't specific official guidance on a "safe" time gap for step transaction issues, but tax attorneys I've consulted generally recommend at least 30-60 days between related transactions to help establish independence. The key is that each transaction should have its own legitimate business purpose. For gifts specifically, you want to document that the gift was made for normal family reasons (birthday, holiday, general financial support) rather than as part of a tax avoidance scheme. Keep records showing the gift was unconditional - your kids can do whatever they want with the money, including not investing it at all. The step transaction doctrine isn't just about timing though. The IRS looks at factors like whether the transactions were legally interdependent, whether intermediate steps had economic substance, and whether the taxpayer was committed to completing the entire series of steps from the beginning. Good documentation of independent decision-making at each step is crucial.

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Joshua Hellan

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One important consideration that hasn't been mentioned yet is the gift tax implications. While you mentioned the $22,000 gift, remember that the 2024 annual gift tax exclusion is $18,000 per recipient. If you're gifting $22,000 to each of your three children ($66,000 total), you'll exceed the annual exclusion limits and need to file Form 709. This actually creates additional documentation that could make it easier for the IRS to connect your stock sale to your children's subsequent purchases. The gift tax return would show the timing and amounts of your gifts, which could be cross-referenced with their brokerage activity. Consider splitting the gifts between you and your spouse (if married) to stay within the annual exclusion limits, or spacing the gifts across tax years. This reduces both the gift tax filing requirements and the paper trail that might trigger IRS scrutiny of the overall transaction sequence. Also, make sure your children understand they should make their own independent investment decisions with the gifted funds, and document that the gifts are unconditional with no expectation about how the money will be used.

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Max Reyes

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This is a really important point about the gift tax reporting! I hadn't considered how filing Form 709 would create that direct paper trail linking the stock sale to the gifts. The timing suggestion about splitting gifts across tax years is smart too - it not only avoids the reporting requirement but also creates more separation between the sale and any subsequent purchases by the kids. One question though - if you're married filing jointly, can both spouses use their $18,000 annual exclusion for the same recipients even if only one spouse actually makes the gift? Or does the money need to actually come from both spouses' accounts to qualify for the combined $36,000 exclusion per child?

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