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Has anyone dealt with the AMT implications of ISOs even with a disqualifying disposition? I exercised some ISOs last year but had to sell a few months later below the FMV at exercise, and I'm trying to figure out if I still need to worry about AMT.

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With a disqualifying disposition, the AMT adjustment for ISOs essentially disappears. Since you're already recognizing ordinary income (the lesser of your actual gain or the spread at exercise), there's no preference item to trigger AMT. The AMT trap is mainly for people who exercise and hold past the calendar year. When you have a disqualifying disposition in the same year as exercise, you usually don't have to worry about AMT on those specific shares.

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StarSeeker

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Thanks everyone for the detailed explanations! This thread has been incredibly helpful. I just wanted to add one more consideration that caught me off guard when I dealt with a similar ISO disqualifying disposition situation. Make sure to keep detailed records of your exercise date, FMV at exercise, exercise price, sale date, and sale price for each batch of shares. The IRS may want documentation to support your calculations, especially when you're claiming the "lesser of" rule applies. Also, if you exercised ISOs across multiple tax years but sold in a single year, each batch needs to be calculated separately. I made the mistake of averaging everything together initially, which would have resulted in incorrect tax treatment. One last tip - if you're doing this manually, double-check your math on the ordinary income calculation. It's easy to accidentally use the spread at exercise instead of your actual gain when the sale price is below FMV at exercise. The difference can be significant on your tax bill!

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Zara Rashid

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This is such great advice about keeping detailed records! I learned this the hard way when I got audited on my ISO transactions. The IRS wanted to see everything - brokerage statements, option grant agreements, exercise confirmations, and even emails from my company's stock plan administrator. One thing I'd add is to also document the source of your FMV at exercise date. If your company uses a third-party valuation or if it's based on the closing price of publicly traded stock, keep that documentation too. The IRS wants to verify that the FMV you're using is legitimate and not just a number you picked. Also, if anyone is using tax software, make sure it's actually calculating the "lesser of" rule correctly for disqualifying dispositions. I found that some of the basic tax prep software doesn't handle this scenario properly and just assumes all ISO exercises result in the full spread being taxed as ordinary income.

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Arjun Kurti

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Great question about tax software! Most professional tax software (like ProSeries, Lacerte, or Drake) will automatically calculate both Form 7203 and Schedule M-2, but they don't always flag discrepancies between them for you. The software typically handles the basic calculations correctly - like increasing basis for income and decreasing for distributions. But it's still important to manually review because the software might not catch more complex situations like: - Loans you've made to the business that affect debt basis but not AAA - Prior year adjustments that need to be reconciled - Tax-exempt income that affects basis differently than AAA - If you've made additional capital contributions during the year I always recommend doing a manual reconciliation at year-end, especially if you have loans to the business or made any capital contributions. The software is great for the calculations, but understanding the relationship between these forms really helps you make better business decisions about distributions and planning. TurboTax Business and other consumer software might not handle these calculations as thoroughly, so definitely double-check if you're using those.

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Olivia Evans

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This is really helpful information about tax software! I'm using TurboTax Business and now I'm worried it might not be handling these calculations correctly. You mentioned that consumer software might not be as thorough - are there specific red flags I should look for to know if my calculations are wrong? I have about $15,000 in loans to my S Corp that I want to make sure are being tracked properly for basis purposes.

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Diego Flores

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@c6513c4cb9d1 Good question about red flags with TurboTax Business! Here are some things to check: 1. Make sure Form 7203 is being generated - if TurboTax isn't producing this form automatically, that's a major red flag since it's required for S Corps. 2. Check if your $15,000 loan is showing up in the "debt basis" section of Form 7203. It should be listed separately from your stock basis. 3. Compare your ending basis on Form 7203 to your beginning basis plus income minus distributions. If those don't reconcile properly, the software might be missing something. 4. Look at Schedule M-2 and make sure your AAA account makes sense - it should reflect your accumulated earnings minus distributions, but won't include your loan amount. The biggest issue I've seen with consumer software is that it sometimes doesn't properly track debt basis from loans, or it might not carry forward prior year basis adjustments correctly. If you're seeing any discrepancies in these areas, you might want to have a CPA review your return. Your loan should definitely increase your total basis for loss limitation purposes, even though it won't affect the corporate-level AAA calculation.

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This is such a timely question! I just went through this exact confusion with my S Corp last month. What finally helped me understand it was thinking of Form 7203 as "my personal scorecard" and Schedule M-2 as "the company's scorecard." Your basis on Form 7203 starts with what you originally invested in the company, then goes up with profits (which you pay tax on) and down with distributions you take out. But it also includes any loans you've made to the business - that's your "debt basis." Schedule M-2 is totally different - it's tracking the company's accumulated earnings that have been taxed but not yet distributed (the AAA account). It doesn't care about your original investment or any loans you made. In your situation with $87,500 profit and $65,000 distributions, your basis calculation would be: [starting basis] + $87,500 - $65,000. The M-2 would show $87,500 added to AAA and $65,000 taken out, leaving $22,500 in AAA. The key insight for me was realizing these numbers will almost never match because they're measuring completely different things - your total investment vs. the company's retained taxable earnings. Hope this helps clarify it!

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This is exactly the kind of explanation I needed! The "personal scorecard vs company scorecard" analogy really clicks for me. I've been trying to make these numbers match when they're actually tracking completely different things. One follow-up question - you mentioned that basis includes loans made to the business. If I lend money to my S Corp during the year, does that immediately increase my debt basis, or do I need to wait until year-end? And does the loan need to be formal with documentation, or can it be informal advances I make to cover business expenses? I'm asking because I've been covering some business expenses out of pocket when cash flow was tight, and I wasn't sure if those count as loans that would affect my basis calculations.

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Derek Olson

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This is such a common situation! I went through the exact same thing when I got married in 2020. The key thing to understand is that your filing status (married filing jointly) and your W4 withholding are two different things that need to work together. Since you've been filing jointly successfully, that part is fine. The issue is that if you're still withholding as "single" on your W4 while your husband withholds as "married," you're probably in a pretty good spot actually. The "single" rate withholds more aggressively, which can offset the underwithholding that often happens when both spouses select "married." However, the safest approach is to update both your W4s using the current form. As others mentioned, either check Step 2(c) on both forms or use the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator. Don't stress too much about the years you didn't update it - if your tax returns came out fine, you were probably withholding appropriately by accident! I'd recommend running the numbers through the IRS calculator now to see where you stand for this year, and then update your W4 based on those results.

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Zara Mirza

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This is really helpful perspective! I never thought about how withholding as "single" while my husband withholds as "married" might actually be balancing things out. That could explain why our tax returns have been okay these past few years even though I never updated my W4. I'm definitely going to run our numbers through the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator like you suggested to see where we actually stand for this year. Better to know now than get surprised at tax time! Thanks for the reassurance that I haven't completely messed things up by waiting so long to address this.

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You're definitely not alone in this situation! I made the same mistake when I got married in 2019 and didn't update my W4 for almost two years. The good news is that if your joint tax returns have been coming out okay, you might have accidentally found a decent balance. Here's what I learned: when one spouse withholds as "single" (higher withholding rate) and the other as "married" (lower rate), it can sometimes work out better than both selecting "married" which often leads to underwithholding. That said, you should definitely get this sorted properly. I'd recommend using the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator tool - it's free and will give you personalized recommendations based on both your incomes. You can find it by searching "Tax Withholding Estimator" on irs.gov. The current W4 form is much better designed for dual-income households than the old version. If you both have just one job each, you can simply check the box in Step 2(c) on both your W4s. This tells the system to account for the second income and withhold appropriately. Don't stress too much about the past few years - focus on getting it right going forward so you avoid any surprises next tax season!

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Sarah Ali

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Is anyone going to mention the Foreign Investment in Real Property Tax Act (FIRPTA)? Or does that not apply since it's a US citizen selling foreign property rather than a foreigner selling US property?

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Good question! FIRPTA generally applies to foreign persons selling U.S. real property interests, not U.S. persons selling foreign property. In this case, the mother is a U.S. citizen selling property in Greece, so FIRPTA wouldn't apply to her situation. What she does need to worry about is properly reporting the sale on her U.S. tax return and paying any applicable capital gains tax on the appreciation since inheritance. She'll also need to be aware of any reporting requirements for foreign accounts if the proceeds are deposited overseas before being transferred to the U.S.

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One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the importance of getting proper documentation of the property's fair market value as of the inheritance date in 2016. Since Greece may not have the same appraisal systems we're used to here, your mom should try to gather any official valuations, tax assessments, or comparable sales data from around that time to support the stepped-up basis calculation. Also, she should keep detailed records of any improvements or maintenance she's done to the property since inheriting it, as these costs can potentially be added to her basis and reduce the taxable gain. Even if she hasn't physically been there, any money spent on upkeep, repairs, or improvements through a property management company would count. The currency conversion aspect is tricky too - she'll need the EUR/USD exchange rates for both the 2016 inheritance date and the sale date. The IRS has historical exchange rate tables on their website that are considered official for tax purposes, so make sure to use those rather than just any online converter.

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Yara Elias

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This is really helpful advice about the documentation! I'm wondering though - what happens if she can't find good records of the 2016 value? My understanding is that Greek property records might not be as detailed as what we're used to in the US. Would the IRS accept something like a real estate agent's estimate from that time period, or do they require more official documentation like tax assessments? Also, regarding the currency conversion - should she use the exchange rate from the specific date she inherited it, or would an average rate for that month/year be acceptable? I know the IRS can be pretty strict about these details, especially with international transactions.

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Protip: If you have the IRS2Go app, sometimes it updates with your refund status a day or two before the transcript shows changes. Mine showed "refund approved" on the app while my transcript was still processing, and it gave me the correct post-offset amount. Might be worth checking both if you're anxiously waiting like I was!

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Oliver Cheng

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Does the app show the breakdown of the offset though? Like will it tell you exactly how much went to the loans vs how much you're getting back? Or does it just show the final amount?

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I went through this exact situation two years ago with defaulted student loans! Here's what I learned: Your transcript will show the full refund amount first with a deposit date, but then it gets updated to show the reduced amount after the offset is processed. The key thing to watch for is transaction code 898 on your transcript - that's the offset code. What really helped me was calling the Treasury Offset Program at 800-304-3107. You can enter your SSN and get automated info about any pending offsets without waiting on hold. They'll tell you exactly which agency is claiming money and approximately how much. For your car repairs situation, definitely look into the hardship refund option someone mentioned earlier. Since you need your car operational, that could qualify as a legitimate hardship. Contact your loan servicer directly and ask about their offset hardship refund process - the worst they can say is no, but you might get some of that money back faster than waiting for your regular payment plan. Good luck! The waiting and uncertainty is definitely the worst part, but at least once you know the numbers you can plan accordingly.

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Xan Dae

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This is super helpful, thank you! I had no idea about that Treasury Offset Program number - definitely calling that today. Just to clarify though, when you say the transcript shows the "full refund amount first with a deposit date" - does that mean I might see a deposit date for like $4,500 (my expected refund) and then a few days later it changes to show only $2,000 after the offset? I'm trying to mentally prepare myself for either scenario since I really need to know what I'm working with for these car repairs.

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