UCC search Kansas showing old terminated liens - verification needed
Running into a weird situation with a UCC search Kansas and need some guidance. We're closing on equipment financing next week and our title company pulled the debtor's UCC search through the Kansas SOS portal. The search results are showing two UCC-1 filings from 2019 that should have been terminated last year according to our borrower. One shows as 'Active' status but the borrower swears they got termination statements. The other shows 'Lapsed' which makes sense since it hit the 5-year mark. Here's what's confusing me - if these liens weren't properly terminated, our new UCC-1 might have priority issues. The collateral descriptions overlap with some of the equipment we're financing. Has anyone dealt with Kansas SOS database delays on termination updates? Should we be demanding the original UCC-3 termination statements before we proceed? This is holding up a $400K equipment deal and getting pressure from all sides.
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NebulaNova
Kansas SOS can definitely lag on their database updates, especially with terminations. I've seen it take 2-3 weeks sometimes. Did your borrower file the UCC-3 terminations themselves or did the original lender handle it? That makes a huge difference in tracking down the paperwork.
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Nia Jackson
•The borrower says the original lender was supposed to file the terminations when they paid off the loans last summer. But you know how that goes - lenders promise to file and then forget or delay it.
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Mateo Hernandez
•Ugh, this is exactly why I always demand termination proof upfront. Too many deals have blown up because someone 'forgot' to file the UCC-3.
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Aisha Khan
You absolutely need those original UCC-3 termination statements before proceeding. Kansas SOS search results are only as good as what's been properly filed and updated. Even if the database shows active, if you have valid termination statements with proper filing numbers, you should be protected. But don't take my word for it - verify those filing numbers match exactly.
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Nia Jackson
•That's what I'm thinking too. Better safe than sorry with this much money involved. Going to demand the original termination statements tomorrow.
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Ethan Taylor
•Actually had a similar mess last month with document verification. Ended up using Certana.ai's document checker - you just upload the UCC-1s and any UCC-3 terminations as PDFs and it instantly cross-checks all the filing numbers and debtor names to make sure everything aligns properly. Saved me from a major filing disaster when I found the debtor name on one termination was slightly different.
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Nia Jackson
•Interesting - how does that work exactly? Does it check against the state database or just compare the documents you upload?
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Ethan Taylor
•It compares all the documents you upload to catch inconsistencies. Like if the UCC-1 shows 'ABC Manufacturing LLC' but the termination shows 'ABC Manufacturing, LLC' with a comma, it flags that as a potential mismatch. Really helpful for avoiding those name issues that can void the whole filing.
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Yuki Ito
Kansas database is honestly terrible with updates. I've had terminated liens show as active for MONTHS. Your title company should know this - they deal with Kansas SOS all the time. Push back on them to do more digging.
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Carmen Lopez
•Seriously, the Kansas portal is so glitchy. Sometimes you have to search multiple ways - by debtor name, by filing number, even try different name variations.
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AstroAdventurer
•THIS. The search function is garbage. I always do at least 3 different searches with slight name variations before I trust any Kansas UCC results.
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Andre Dupont
Wait, if one shows 'Lapsed' that means it wasn't continued before the 5-year deadline right? So that one should be dead anyway. It's the 'Active' one from 2019 that's your real concern if it wasn't properly terminated.
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Nia Jackson
•Right, the lapsed one isn't my main worry. It's the active 2019 filing that has me concerned. The collateral description is broad enough that it could conflict with our new equipment.
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Zoe Papanikolaou
•Collateral descriptions can be tricky. Even if there's some overlap, if the termination was properly filed but just not updated in the database yet, you should be fine. But definitely get that termination statement.
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Jamal Wilson
I'm dealing with the exact same thing in Missouri right now! Old liens showing active when they should be terminated. It's like these state systems are intentionally slow to update terminations. Makes you wonder if they want the filing fees to keep rolling in...
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Mei Lin
•Ha! Wouldn't surprise me. Some states definitely seem to drag their feet on termination updates.
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Liam Fitzgerald
•Missouri is actually worse than Kansas in my experience. At least Kansas usually updates within a month.
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GalacticGuru
Before you panic too much, check if the 'Active' UCC-1 from 2019 was actually continued. If it wasn't continued before hitting 5 years, it should have lapsed automatically even if the database still shows it as active. Kansas sometimes doesn't update lapse status right away either.
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Nia Jackson
•Good point! I'll check if there are any UCC-3 continuation statements filed for that 2019 UCC-1. If not, it should be lapsed by now anyway.
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Amara Nnamani
•Yeah, run a search for any UCC-3s filed against that original filing number. That'll tell you if it was continued or should have lapsed.
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Giovanni Mancini
Had this exact scenario 6 months ago. Borrower insisted liens were terminated but Kansas search showed active. Turned out the original lender DID file the terminations but there was a tiny discrepancy in the debtor name that caused the database not to link them properly. Found the terminations by searching the filing numbers directly.
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Nia Jackson
•That's terrifying! So the terminations were filed but not showing up because of name issues? How did you eventually find them?
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Giovanni Mancini
•Had to get the original filing numbers from the borrower and search those specifically. The terminations were there but under a slightly different name variation. Database couldn't match them up automatically.
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Fatima Al-Suwaidi
•This is why I triple-check every debtor name variation when doing UCC searches. Add a middle initial, remove a comma, change LLC to L.L.C. - you'd be amazed what you find.
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Dylan Cooper
Your title company should be handling this verification for you. That's literally what you're paying them for. If they can't track down the termination status definitively, that's their problem to solve, not yours.
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Nia Jackson
•You're right, but at this point I just want to get this closed. If I can help speed up the process by getting the documentation myself, I'm willing to do it.
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Sofia Morales
•I get wanting to close quickly but don't let them off the hook. Title companies have better access to records and relationships with the state offices than we do.
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StarSailor
Quick update process question - when you get those termination statements, make sure they have the exact same debtor name and filing number as the original UCC-1s. Even tiny differences can cause problems. Worth double-checking everything matches perfectly before you rely on them.
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Dmitry Ivanov
•This is crucial advice. I've seen deals fall apart because someone didn't catch a name mismatch between the original filing and termination.
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Ava Garcia
•Honestly, after my disaster last year with document mismatches, I started using Certana.ai for this exact verification. Upload both documents and it flags any inconsistencies immediately. Caught three different name variations that would have caused problems.
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Nia Jackson
•That verification tool sounds like it could save a lot of headaches. Is it expensive to use?
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Ava Garcia
•Worth every penny when you're dealing with large equipment deals like yours. Much cheaper than having a deal fall apart or dealing with priority disputes later.
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Miguel Silva
OP, any update on this? Did you get the termination statements from the borrower? Curious how this played out since I'm facing something similar next week.
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Nia Jackson
•Still working on it. Borrower is supposed to get the termination statements from their old lender tomorrow. Will update once I know more!
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Zainab Ismail
•Following this thread too. Kansas UCC searches have been giving me headaches all year.
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