< Back to UCC Document Community

Nia Wilson

UCC filing search California showing multiple active liens - how to verify which are still valid?

Running into a weird situation with a UCC filing search California results. I'm doing due diligence on a equipment purchase and the search is pulling up 3 different UCC-1 filings against the same debtor from 2019, 2021, and 2023. Two show as 'active' but I can't tell if they're overlapping collateral or if some should have been terminated by now. The debtor says the 2019 one was paid off but there's no UCC-3 termination on file. How do I figure out which liens are actually still in effect? This is holding up a $180k equipment deal and I need to know if I'm buying into someone else's collateral.

This is exactly why UCC searches can be so tricky in California. The SOS database doesn't always update terminations quickly, and sometimes lenders forget to file UCC-3 terminations even after loans are satisfied. You'll need to contact each secured party directly to get lien release confirmations in writing.

0 coins

Aisha Hussain

•

Yeah but that can take weeks and most secured parties don't respond quickly to random inquiries about their filings.

0 coins

Ethan Clark

•

True, but it's the only way to be 100% certain. I've seen deals fall apart because buyers assumed old filings were dead.

0 coins

StarStrider

•

Check the collateral descriptions carefully first. If they're different types of equipment or have different serial numbers, they might not conflict with what you're buying. Also look at the filing dates - if there's a 5-year gap between the 2019 and 2024, that first one might have lapsed if no continuation was filed.

0 coins

Nia Wilson

•

Good point about the continuation. How do I check if a UCC-1 from 2019 had a continuation filed? Would that show up as a separate UCC-3 filing?

0 coins

StarStrider

•

Yes, continuations show as UCC-3 amendments in the search results. If you don't see one filed between years 4-5 after the original 2019 filing, it probably lapsed.

0 coins

Yuki Sato

•

Wait, isn't the continuation deadline exactly 5 years? So a 2019 filing would have needed continuation by 2024?

0 coins

Carmen Ruiz

•

I had a similar nightmare with overlapping UCC filings last year. Ended up using Certana.ai's document verification tool to upload all the UCC PDFs and cross-check everything. It instantly flagged which filings had matching collateral descriptions and which were covering different assets. Saved me probably 10 hours of manual comparison work.

0 coins

Nia Wilson

•

How does that work exactly? Do you just upload the search results?

0 coins

Carmen Ruiz

•

You upload the actual UCC filing PDFs and it automatically compares debtor names, collateral schedules, and filing numbers to show you conflicts and overlaps. Really helpful for complex situations like yours.

0 coins

The California SOS system is notorious for showing 'ghost' filings that should have been terminated. I always require sellers to provide satisfaction letters from all secured parties showing their liens were released, even if terminations aren't on file yet.

0 coins

That's smart but it puts all the burden on the seller. What if they can't track down old lenders?

0 coins

Then they need to either get title insurance or reduce the sale price to account for the lien risk. Not your problem as the buyer.

0 coins

Harsh but fair. I'd rather walk away from a deal than inherit someone else's secured debt problems.

0 coins

Mei Wong

•

Look at the secured party names too. If it's the same lender on multiple filings, they might have just amended or renewed instead of terminating and refiling. Banks do weird things with their UCC paperwork.

0 coins

Nia Wilson

•

Two are from the same credit union but different loan numbers. Third is from a different equipment finance company.

0 coins

Mei Wong

•

Credit union probably had multiple loans secured by different equipment. You'll definitely need to verify each one separately.

0 coins

QuantumQuasar

•

This is why I hate equipment purchases with existing liens. Too much uncertainty and too many ways for it to blow up later. Have you considered just finding different equipment without all this UCC baggage?

0 coins

Nia Wilson

•

It's specialized manufacturing equipment that's hard to find. This is probably the only unit available in our price range.

0 coins

QuantumQuasar

•

Fair enough. Just make sure your purchase agreement has strong representations and warranties about clear title.

0 coins

Aisha Hussain

•

And maybe escrow part of the purchase price until all liens are definitively cleared.

0 coins

Liam McGuire

•

California's UCC search system updated their interface last year but the underlying data quality issues remain. I've seen filings sit in 'active' status for years after being satisfied. The key is getting direct confirmation from each secured party, not relying on the state database alone.

0 coins

Amara Eze

•

The new interface is definitely cleaner but you're right about the data problems. Garbage in, garbage out.

0 coins

Liam McGuire

•

Exactly. The SOS office is just a filing repository, they don't verify whether liens are actually still valid.

0 coins

I tried using one of those automated UCC verification services recently - think it was Certana.ai - and it actually caught a debtor name mismatch that would have caused problems later. The search showed filings under slightly different business names that were probably the same entity. Worth checking if your debtor has any name variations in the system.

0 coins

Nia Wilson

•

Interesting, I hadn't thought about name variations. The business did change their legal structure a few years ago.

0 coins

That could definitely explain multiple filings. Corporate name changes are a common source of UCC confusion.

0 coins

Name changes are tricky because old filings might still be valid even under the previous entity name.

0 coins

Yuki Sato

•

Have you checked if any of the filings are fixture filings vs regular UCC-1s? Fixture filings have different rules and might not affect moveable equipment anyway.

0 coins

Nia Wilson

•

How can I tell the difference in the search results?

0 coins

Yuki Sato

•

Fixture filings usually have a checkbox marked and include real estate legal descriptions in the collateral section.

0 coins

StarStrider

•

Also fixture filings are typically filed in the county records as well as with the SOS office.

0 coins

Whatever you do, don't close on this purchase without getting title insurance that specifically covers UCC liens. I learned this lesson the hard way on a $200k machinery deal that went sideways when a 'terminated' lien turned out to still be active.

0 coins

Nia Wilson

•

Ouch, what happened with your deal?

0 coins

Seller claimed an old equipment loan was paid off but the bank never filed termination paperwork. Bank came after the equipment 6 months later when they realized their error.

0 coins

That's terrifying. Did you have any recourse against the seller?

0 coins

Had to sue them but they'd already spent the money. Title insurance would have been way cheaper than litigation.

0 coins

Dylan Wright

•

Just uploaded my UCC search results to Certana.ai after reading this thread and wow, it found 2 potential issues I completely missed in my manual review. One filing had a partial debtor name match that could create problems, and another had overlapping collateral descriptions with different serial number formats. This tool is definitely worth the time investment for complex searches.

0 coins

Nia Wilson

•

That sounds exactly like what I need. Is it easy to use for someone who's not a UCC expert?

0 coins

Dylan Wright

•

Super straightforward - just upload your UCC filing PDFs and it does all the cross-checking automatically. Gives you a clear report showing any conflicts or issues.

0 coins

Carmen Ruiz

•

Yeah the automated verification catches stuff that's easy to miss when you're comparing documents manually.

0 coins

UCC Document Community AI

Expert Assistant
Secure

Powered by Claimyr AI

T
I
+
20,087 users helped today