ESD hearing this Friday - employer fighting UI benefits after bullying/improper firing - need advice ASAP

I went through a similar hearing last year. Here's what you need to know:\n\n1. Prepare a clear timeline of events - dates of employment, when the bullying began, the specific incident, and termination date.\n\n2. Gather any documentation: performance reviews, emails about lack of training, any written communication about the bullying/incident, and the company's disciplinary policy if you have it.\n\n3. If any coworkers witnessed the bullying or know about the supervisor's history, ask if they'd be willing to provide written statements or call in to testify.\n\n4. The hearing is conducted by phone with an Administrative Law Judge. It's formal but not like a courtroom. Everyone testifies under oath.\n\n5. Write out your husband's side of the story but keep it factual - focus on the lack of progressive discipline, the supervisor's known history, and the insufficient training.\n\n6. Practice answering questions like: \

Thank you sooo much for this detailed response! We didn't even think about getting the company's disciplinary policy - that's brilliant since they didn't follow any steps before firing him. I'm worried about the coworker statements though. People still working there are scared to speak up against management. Do you think the supervisor's existing performance improvement plan for disrespecting other staff would be enough to show a pattern? Also, is there a specific way my husband should address the judge during the hearing? I'm so nervous for him!

OMG I just went thru this last month!!!! whatever u do, RECORD THE CALL!!!! my employer LIED during the hearing and said I had warnings but I didnt! I wasnt recording so it was their word against mine. also the judge kept interupting me when I tried to explain my side. make sure ur husband stays SUPER calm even when they lie. they will try to make him look bad. the whole thing took like 45 mins and was super stressful. have all ur dates and notes in front of u!!!!

Be careful with recording advice - Washington is a two-party consent state, so you need to inform everyone on the call that you're recording and get their permission. Otherwise, the recording could be illegal and inadmissible. The better approach is to take detailed notes during the call or have someone else present with you to take notes while you focus on the hearing.

The most important thing in these hearings is proving that your husband was not terminated for misconduct. Since the employer is contesting the claim, they likely will argue either misconduct or voluntary quit. From what you described, it sounds like they'll claim misconduct related to this

This is really helpful information about the structure! We didn't realize the employer testifies first or that there would be cross-examination. The incident was basically the supervisor yelling at him in front of customers because he used a different procedure than she preferred (even though it accomplished the same result). When he tried to explain that another manager had shown him that method, she cut him off and told him he was

When I had my hearing the judge didnt even let my old boss finish his story cause he kept changing details!! Just be honest and dont contradict yourself. Judges do these all day and can spot BS. If your husband really was fired without warning after being bullied by someone who had a history of bullying, he should be fine. But yeah definitely mention if they skipped their own disciplinary steps!!! That helped me win my case.

I've been dealing with the ESD system for years (unfortunately), and trying to get through to someone at ESD before your hearing can be really helpful. Explain the situation to an agent and ask if there's anything specific you should prepare.\n\nI used a service called Claimyr (claimyr.com) to get through to an ESD agent when I was preparing for my hearing. Their service connected me to an agent in about 15 minutes when I had been trying for days on my own. They have a video showing how it works: https://youtu.be/7DieNd3C7zQ?si=26TzE_zGms-DODN3 \n\nThe agent I spoke with gave me specific advice for my situation and it made a huge difference. They told me exactly what documentation to have ready and what sections of the law applied to my case. Definitely worth the time to speak with someone at ESD directly before the hearing.

Thank you for suggesting this! I didn't even think about calling ESD directly before the hearing. I figured they wouldn't give advice, but it makes sense they could at least tell us what to prepare. I've been trying to call them anyway to make sure we understand the process. I'll check out that service since we only have a few days left to prepare!

Make sure your husband dresses professionally for the hearing! I know it's over the phone but it helps him stay in a professional mindset. Also, don't interrupt the judge or the employer when they're speaking - wait your turn no matter how much you want to correct them. And WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN during the hearing - who said what. You might need it for an appeal later.

This is excellent advice about maintaining professionalism. I'd add that your husband should address the judge as

I represented clients in unemployment hearings for 8 years. Here's what matters most in your case:\n\n1. Progressive discipline - If the company handbook specifies a disciplinary process and they didn't follow it, that's extremely significant. Get a copy of that handbook if possible.\n\n2. Documentation of the supervisor's PIP for similar behavior - This establishes a pattern and credibility issues.\n\n3. Specificity about training inadequacies - Concrete examples are better than general statements.\n\n4. The exact language and context of the incident - Was your husband defending himself from abusive behavior? That's different from insubordination.\n\nIn Washington state, the burden is on the employer to prove misconduct, defined as a deliberate disregard of the employer's interest. A single incident rarely meets this threshold unless it's severe (theft, violence, etc.). Being fired for responding to bullying wouldn't typically constitute misconduct under ESD standards.\n\nMake sure your husband answers only the question asked - don't volunteer additional information. And never guess at answers - \

is it true that if you win they have to pay your lawyer fees?? someone told me that but i couldnt afford to test it out lol. also when i had my hearing the judge seemed like they already made up their mind before it even started. it was so frustrating!!!

No, attorney fees aren't typically awarded in unemployment hearings at the administrative level. If the case goes to Superior Court on appeal, then fees might be available to the prevailing party in some circumstances. \n\nRegarding judges seeming to have made up their minds - sometimes they have reviewed the file extensively beforehand and have preliminary thoughts, but good judges remain open to changing their opinion based on testimony. Focus on providing clear, factual information rather than emotional appeals.

Thank you all for the amazing advice! We're feeling so much more prepared now. I found his employee handbook and it DOES have a 3-step discipline policy they completely ignored. We're going to write up a timeline tonight and practice answering questions. One last thing - do we need to submit any documents before the hearing or can we just refer to them during the call?

You should submit any documents you want considered at least 24 hours before the hearing. There should be instructions in the hearing notice about how to submit them. If you miss that window, you can still ask the judge during the hearing if you can submit them, but they have discretion whether to accept late submissions. Make sure to send copies to the employer as well - the hearing notice should explain the process for this too.

My hearing was so stressful I nearly threw up beforehand, but it ended up being way more straightforward than I expected. Just remember that the judges do this all day long and they're used to people being nervous. Also when my old company lied about stuff, the judge actually called them out on contradictions in their testimony!! I was shocked, I thought no one would believe me but the judge was actually super fair.