This whole conversation makes me think about Universal Basic Income differently. Like if we had UBI, maybe people could afford to be more selective about work without suffering, which could actually improve job matching and reduce the pressure to accept terrible jobs.

This discussion is fascinating and really eye-opening! As someone who's been through the Washington ESD system recently, I never thought about unemployment from this macro perspective before. The point about needing some "slack" in the labor market for people to have bargaining power really resonates - when I was job hunting, having that buffer time (even though it was stressful) did let me be more selective and ultimately find a better fit. It's wild to think that zero unemployment could actually trap workers in bad situations. Makes me appreciate that unemployment benefits, despite all the bureaucratic headaches, serve a real economic function beyond just helping individuals.

One thing nobody told me during my appeal: THE HEARING IS RECORDED!!! Make sure you don't interrupt anyone, especially the judge. Let the employer finish talking even when they're lying. The judge kept telling me to wait my turn and I think it made me look bad. Also be ready for the employer to have their lawyer or HR person there who will sound all professional and prepared.

I went through a very similar situation about 18 months ago - new manager, private conversation about workplace concerns, immediate suspension, then termination for "insubordination." I was terrified going into the appeal hearing but I actually won! A few things that really helped my case: **Document the timeline NOW** - Write down every detail you can remember while it's fresh. Include the exact words you used in that meeting (as best you can recall), your tone, the supervisor's reaction, when the suspension happened, etc. **Request specific evidence from your employer** - During the hearing, you can ask the judge to require your employer to provide specific examples of the "insubordination" they claim happened. If they can't give concrete details with dates and witnesses, it weakens their credibility significantly. **Bring character evidence** - Any performance reviews, commendations, or emails showing you were a professional, cooperative employee before this incident. The contrast will be obvious to the judge. **Stay calm during the hearing** - I know it's hard when they're literally making stuff up about you, but the judge notices who stays professional and who gets defensive or emotional. The key thing to remember is that expressing legitimate workplace concerns in an appropriate, private setting is NOT insubordination under Washington law. You have to willfully refuse to follow a direct order or be deliberately disruptive. It sounds like you were trying to be constructive, not defiant. You've got this! The system isn't perfect but judges deal with these "he said/she said" situations all the time, and they can usually tell who's being truthful.

I'm having this exact same problem right now! Been trying to log in for the past hour and getting the endless refresh loop. Reading through all these solutions, it sounds like the incognito/private browsing mode is the most reliable quick fix. I'm going to try that first, then work my way through the other suggestions if needed. It's really frustrating that ESD made these security changes back in January without properly informing users or ensuring the system worked smoothly. We're all just trying to file our claims on time and access benefits we're entitled to. Thank you to everyone who took the time to share their workarounds - this community support is invaluable when the official support channels are impossible to reach! Will update once I try these solutions to let others know what worked for me.

I'm experiencing this exact same issue! Started happening to me yesterday and it's driving me crazy. I can log into SAW perfectly fine, but the moment I try to access E-Services it just keeps refreshing the login page with no error message whatsoever. Based on all the helpful suggestions here, I'm going to try the incognito browser mode first since that seems to work for most people. If that doesn't work, I'll try Carmen's method of going through the main esd.wa.gov site instead of directly to E-Services. It's absolutely ridiculous that ESD pushed out these security updates in January without proper testing or user communication. We shouldn't have to hunt down workarounds on community forums just to access our benefits! Thank you everyone for sharing your solutions - this thread is a lifesaver when ESD's phone support is completely unreachable.

One more important point: When you apply, ESD will automatically calculate your base year and determine if you qualify. You don't need to figure this all out beforehand. If you believe your job situation isn't going to work out, you should apply when the time comes and let the system determine your eligibility. Just be honest about your work history, separation reason, and current employment situation. The online application will walk you through everything step by step.

Just wanted to add that Washington also has a "Alternate Base Year" option if you don't qualify under the standard base year calculation. This uses the most recent 4 completed quarters instead of the first 4 of the last 5. Since you've been working W-2 for 3 months, this might help you if you need to file soon - it could potentially capture more of your recent W-2 earnings. ESD will automatically check this if you don't qualify under the standard calculation, so it's worth keeping in mind as a potential backup option.

Bottom line - yes, layoffs qualify for unemployment benefits in Washington. File as soon as you're eligible, keep good records, and don't ignore any correspondence from ESD. You should be fine given your work history.

Just wanted to add that you should also check if your company is offering any severance package or COBRA benefits. These won't affect your unemployment eligibility, but they can impact the timing of when you file. If you're getting severance pay that extends beyond your last work day, you might need to wait until that severance period ends before you can start collecting UI benefits. Also, don't forget to ask HR about any unused vacation or PTO payout - that's separate from unemployment but good to know about for your financial planning.