County UCC filings vs state - which system for equipment loans?
Getting conflicting info about where to file our UCC-1s for restaurant equipment financing. Our bank's paralegal insists we need to file at the county level for fixtures but I'm seeing state-level filings mentioned everywhere online. We're doing about $180K in commercial kitchen equipment that will be permanently installed (walk-in coolers, hood systems, etc). The equipment supplier said something about fixture filings being different but honestly I'm lost. Has anyone dealt with county UCC filings recently? Our lender is breathing down our neck to get this perfected ASAP and I don't want to mess up the collateral protection by filing in the wrong place.
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Camila Castillo
State level is usually the way to go for most UCC-1 filings, but fixture filings are the exception. If your equipment is truly becoming part of the real estate (permanently attached), then you might need a UCC-1 fixture filing which typically goes to the county recorder where the property is located. The key question is whether your kitchen equipment meets the legal definition of fixtures under your state's law.
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Samuel Robinson
•That's what I was afraid of. The walk-in coolers are definitely permanent but some of the other equipment might not be. Do I need separate filings for different types of equipment?
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Camila Castillo
•You could do a combined approach - state filing for the moveable equipment plus a fixture filing at the county for the permanently attached items. Just make sure your collateral descriptions are crystal clear about which is which.
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Brianna Muhammad
I went through this exact same confusion last year with our medical equipment financing. Ended up filing both places to be safe - state UCC-1 for the moveable equipment and county fixture filing for the built-in systems. Cost a bit more but gave us peace of mind that we had proper lien perfection.
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JaylinCharles
•Smart move. Double filing isn't uncommon when there's ambiguity about fixture status. Better to over-secure than lose priority because of a filing mistake.
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Samuel Robinson
•How did you handle the collateral descriptions differently between the two filings?
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Brianna Muhammad
•State filing had general equipment description, county fixture filing was very specific about which items were permanently affixed to the real estate. Had to work with our attorney to get the language right.
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Eloise Kendrick
Honestly I've been dealing with UCC filings for 15 years and the fixture vs non-fixture determination still trips people up. Your bank's paralegal might be right about the county filing if this equipment truly becomes part of the real estate. Have you looked at your lease agreement? Sometimes that clarifies the fixture status.
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Samuel Robinson
•Good point about the lease. I'll need to check if there's language about what happens to installed equipment when the lease ends.
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Lucas Schmidt
•Lease terms can definitely impact fixture determination. If the lease says equipment stays with the property, that's a strong indicator it's a fixture requiring county filing.
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Freya Collins
Had a similar headache with our warehouse equipment last month. Spent hours trying to figure out state vs county requirements. Finally discovered Certana.ai has this document verification tool where you can upload your lease, equipment specs, and draft UCC forms to check if everything aligns properly. Saved me from making a costly filing mistake - it caught that my collateral description didn't match the equipment specifications correctly.
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Samuel Robinson
•That sounds helpful. Did it specifically help with the fixture vs non-fixture determination?
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Freya Collins
•Yeah, when I uploaded our lease and equipment list, it flagged potential fixture items that might need county filing instead of just state. Really streamlined the whole process.
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LongPeri
•Interesting, I hadn't heard of automated UCC verification tools. Might be worth checking out for our next financing round.
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Oscar O'Neil
FILING IN THE WRONG PLACE IS MY WORST NIGHTMARE!!! Been there, done that, lost priority to another lender because of a stupid clerical error. County clerks and state SOS offices don't talk to each other so you really need to get this right the first time.
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Camila Castillo
•That's exactly why it's so important to get clear guidance on fixture status before filing. A misfiled UCC can be worse than no filing at all if it gives false security.
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Oscar O'Neil
•EXACTLY!! And good luck trying to explain to your client why their security interest is worthless because you filed at state instead of county or vice versa.
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Sara Hellquiem
Check your state's UCC Article 9 commentary - most states have guidance on what constitutes fixtures requiring county filing vs regular collateral filed at state level. Also look at recent court cases in your jurisdiction about fixture determinations.
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Samuel Robinson
•Where would I find the state UCC commentary? Is that available online?
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Sara Hellquiem
•Most Secretary of State websites have UCC resources including fixture filing guidance. Your state bar association might also have UCC practice guides.
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Charlee Coleman
•Some states also have specific fixture filing forms that are different from regular UCC-1 forms. Make sure you're using the right paperwork.
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Liv Park
We always file fixture filings at the county recorder's office where the real estate is located. State UCC filings go to the Secretary of State. The trick is determining what's actually a fixture - just because equipment is heavy or expensive doesn't make it a fixture. It has to be intended to be permanent and actually attached to the real estate in a way that would damage it or the property if removed.
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Samuel Robinson
•That's a good point about intention and attachment. Our hood system is definitely connected to the building's ventilation, so that's probably a fixture.
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Liv Park
•Hood systems are classic fixtures - they're usually integrated into the building's structure. Your walk-in coolers might be fixtures too if they're built into the space rather than just plugged in.
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Leeann Blackstein
honestly this whole fixture thing is why I stick to moveable equipment financing when possible lol. County filing fees are usually higher too and the clerks don't always know what they're doing with UCC filings
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Ryder Greene
•True about county clerks sometimes being less familiar with UCCs. I've had county offices reject perfectly valid fixture filings because the clerk wasn't trained properly.
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Oscar O'Neil
•OMG yes! Had a county clerk tell me they don't accept UCC filings at all, only deeds and liens. Had to bring a copy of the statute to convince them.
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Carmella Fromis
For restaurant equipment, I'd lean toward fixture filing for anything that requires professional installation and can't be easily removed. Walk-in coolers, hood systems, built-in prep stations - these typically qualify. Portable equipment like mixers, slicers, etc. would be regular UCC-1 at state level.
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Samuel Robinson
•That makes sense. So I'm probably looking at both types of filings for different categories of equipment.
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Carmella Fromis
•Exactly. It's common in restaurant financing to have mixed collateral requiring different filing strategies. Just make sure your security agreement covers both scenarios.
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Theodore Nelson
•And double-check that your insurance covers both moveable equipment and fixtures appropriately. The coverage requirements can be different.
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AaliyahAli
I actually tried that Certana.ai tool someone mentioned earlier after struggling with a multi-state equipment financing deal. Really wish I'd known about it sooner - it would have saved me from manually cross-checking all those documents against each state's requirements. The PDF upload feature made it super easy to verify that our UCC-1 matched our security agreement and equipment schedules.
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Ellie Simpson
•How accurate was it with fixture determinations? That seems like something that would require legal judgment rather than automated analysis.
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AaliyahAli
•It flagged potential fixture items based on the equipment descriptions and lease terms, but you still need to make the final legal determination. Think of it more as a comprehensive document review tool that catches inconsistencies.
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Arjun Kurti
Final thought - if you're unsure about fixture status, consider filing a precautionary fixture filing at the county even if you think it might not be necessary. You can always let it lapse later, but you can't go back and perfect a security interest if you missed the fixture filing window and another creditor gets priority.
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Samuel Robinson
•Good advice. The cost of an extra filing is nothing compared to losing priority on a $180K loan.
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Camila Castillo
•Absolutely. Conservative approach is usually best with lien perfection. Better to over-file than under-file.
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Raúl Mora
•This thread has been super helpful. I'm dealing with similar issues on a retail buildout and this gave me a much better understanding of the fixture filing requirements.
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Kaitlyn Otto
Thanks everyone for the detailed responses! This has been incredibly helpful. Based on what I'm reading, it sounds like I definitely need to do dual filings - state for the moveable equipment and county fixture filing for the permanently installed items like the walk-in coolers and hood system. I'm going to review our lease agreement tonight to see what it says about equipment that stays with the property, and then work with our attorney to make sure the collateral descriptions are properly separated between the two filings. Better to be overly cautious than lose our security interest. Will also check out that Certana.ai tool for document verification before we submit anything.
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Ravi Sharma
•Smart approach taking the dual filing route! One thing I'd add - when you're working with your attorney on the collateral descriptions, make sure the fixture filing references the real estate properly with the correct legal description from your lease or property records. County clerks can be picky about that. Also, don't forget to consider the timing - if your lender needs this done ASAP, state filings are usually processed faster than county fixture filings which can take longer depending on the recorder's office workload.
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